Terry Lindvall returns to the show with his daughter and son-in-law to talk about “The Joy of Narnia”, about teaching laughter to Middle School students.
Click here to download audio for S9E4: “The Joy of Narnia”, After Hours with Terry Lindvall, and Cary and Caroline Joseph
Show Notes
Introduction
Quote-of-the-Week
Of course Heaven is leisure (‘there remaineth a rest for the people of God’): but I picture it pretty vigorous too as our best leisure really is… Whether that is best pictured as …surf bathing, or like endlessly exploring a wonderful country or endlessly reading a glorious story—who knows? Dante says Heaven ‘grew drunken with its universal laughter’
– C. S. Lewis, Letter to Mrs. Johnson (25th May, 1957)
Biography
Terry Lindvall is the elder twin born in Basel, Switzerland. He wandered about the world with his family, as his father was an Army Chaplain. He has taught at Azusa Pacific University, Wheaton College, Regent University, Duke Divinity School, the College of William and Mary, and is presently ensconced in the C. S. Lewis Chair of Communication and Christian Thought at Virginia Wesleyan University. He is the author of a number of books on cinema, as well as:
- “God Mocks: A History of Religious Satire from the Hebrew Prophets to Stephen Colbert”
- “Surprised by Laughter Revised and Updated: The Comic World of C.S. Lewis”
Terry is joined today by Cary and Caroline Joseph (we’ll find out more about them shortly), but together they are the authors of “The Joy of Narnia: Teaching Laughter to Middle School Students”.
Chit Chat
Q. Terry, it’s been five seasons since you were last on the show. What have you been up to?
- Since he was last on the show, Terry produced a film called Hollywood, Teach Us to Pray, a journey through film history, diving into the portrayals of humanity’s encounters and struggles with God. He also wrote several books on animated film parables, and led tours through Oxford and Belfast, even staying at the Old Inn Crawfordsburn, where C. S. Lewis and Joy Davidman spent their honeymoon.
- Terry and his wife also welcomed a granddaughter, and have a grandson on the way.
Q. Cary and Caroline, who are you and how did you come to be entangled with this jester?
- Caroline is Terry’s daughter, and he taught her everything she knows about life, laughter, and love. Cary married into the mess. Both of them are middle school teachers
- Every time Terry writes a new book, he changes his license plate. At the time Caroline and Cary were in college, it read “Erasmus”. When Caroline brought Cary home for the first time, he saw Terry’s plate, and proceeded to quote Erasmus. Needless to say Terry knew his daughter had found a good one.
Discussion
Toast
- The subtitle of the book is “teaching laughter to middle school students”, and because David absolutely hated middle school, he went with Angry Orchard Cider.
- Caroline had a glass of water out of a PWJ mug borrowed from her dad.
- Cary also had water (though he’s partial to Guinness).
- Terry sipped on some Irish cream.
- They toasted St. Brendan, and all middle school teachers.
01. “No Joke?”
Q. Before we talk about your book, The Joy of Narnia: Teaching Laughter to Middle School Students, I wondered if any of you had a joke you’d like to share… as a father, I am obviously partial to puns…
- Terry said he recently signed up for a company 401K… but now that he’s thought about it, he’s not sure he can run that far (ba-dum-tss)
- David’s favorite one at the moment is “Why do crabs never volunteer? Because they’re shellfish.”
02. “Not the first joke”
Q. So, Terry, let’s start with you… This isn’t the first book you’ve been a part of… it’s not even your first book on the subject of humour… it’s not even your first book on the subject of humour through the lens of C. S. Lewis! So, what prompted the writing of yet another book?!
- This book began as an academic article for a highly reputable C. S. Lewis Journal. It got sent back for revisions, claiming the work was too lengthy, too digressive, and they were unable to incorporate the cartoons that Terry paired with the work. The cartoons were the primary reason for writing the piece, because they were done by Terry’s friend, the original artist for Christianity Today, John Lawing.
- Fast forward, a former student of Terry’s started a press, and he asked Terry to write something on Lewis. Terry jumped on the idea, and asked for help from his son-in-law and daughter to expand on what he’d written.
- In this new work, Terry wanted to tie his Lewis theme to a problem plaguing middle schoolers everywhere: an inability to laugh. Together, they produced a practical book with Lewisian themes woven throughout.
Q. Who did you write this book for and what do you hope readers will get out of it?
- As teachers themselves, they know that most academics don’t have much time to themselves to parse through heavy books. This is why the book features tidbits, which we’ll cover later on.
- Teaching is difficult, stressful work. Cary hopes that this book makes the workload a little lighter and more enjoyable, and fosters better relationships with students.
- They hope to sneak Lewis past readers’ “watchful dragons” by drawing them in through laughter.
- One of the main insights of the book is modeling laughter for children. Parents are the first teachers of their kids, and especially when they’re young, they are wonderful mimickers. Adults laughing gives them permission to laugh themselves. Our job is to show them what a good sense of humor looks like, and encourage joy and laughter.
03. “C. S. Lewis and Laughter”
Q. So, Caroline, the first chapter is entitled “C. S. Lewis and Laughter”. Now obviously your Dad has written an entire book about this subject before. Was he just phoning in this chapter, or does he say anything different?
- Caroline admitted that she never read her dad’s other book! But from what she understands, the framing of the book is different. In this chapter, they touch on the four types of laughter laid out in “The Screwtape Letters”: Joy, fun and play, The Joke proper, and flippancy.
- One good point made in the book is that attempting to avoid being seen as childish can become childish itself.
Q. Throughout the book, there are little “Tidbit” asides. Cary can you tell us what these are about and maybe share one of your favourites from this chapter?
- The idea is to try to make things practical and accommodate busy schedules. They’re separate, easy to see, and lay out the points in the book clearly.
- Not everyone is going to get your humor, and that’s okay! We all have different styles of humor, and for others, that humor that we like would go right over their heads. Cary and Terry shared funny stories of students being confused by their sense of humor.
04. “Laughter in Middle School”
Q. As I alluded to earlier, I hated Middle School and the second chapter of your book is entitled “Laughter in Middle School” so immediately it conjured up memories of children laughing cruelly at each other… How do you try to redeem Middle School laughter?
- At this age, part of the development of a middle school kid is trying to fit in, and not stand out from the crowd. It also gives them groups to be a part of, and a sense of “the other”, or groups to be avoided.
- Middle schoolers are meme machines. One reason for this might be community, but also a feeling that they are “in the know”. Cary tries to do something similar in real life, by creating inside jokes in each class.
- Caroline shared a middle school bullying experience, and how her dad shifted her perspective by busting out laughing when she told him!
- Terry instructed teachers to encourage the funny class clown rather disciplining them. Of course, there are moments to step in if things gets too disruptive, but too often, teachers will step in and end the fun, which, over time, crushes the humor of energetic, comedic young kids. Encouraging this humor helps to foster community and a good classroom environment.
05. “On Joy – Unexpected Gifts of Delight”
Q. C. S. Lewis entitled his entire spiritual autobiography “Surprised By Joy”, yet you only devote Chapter 3 to the subject of Joy. Do you think you’re better than C. S. Lewis? Please tell the listeners about this chapter so they can decide…
- Of course he does, he’s alive! (just kidding 😉)
- This chapter focuses on helping kids move from “bios” to “Zoe”, or from simply existing to having a full, immersive experience.
- Zoe comes from recognizing a gift that’s been given to you from something/someone outside of yourself. If you give your students the gift of a good classroom atmosphere, not only will they learn better, but they’ll be much more engaged, and will look forward to going to class.
- One way that Caroline incorporates laughter and even music into the classroom is by doing “book breakups”. Every time the class completed an assigned book, they listen to Whitney Houston’s “And I Will Always Love You”.
06. “On Fun – Unleashed Pleasures of Play”
Q. Your next chapter is “On Fun – Unleashed Pleasures of Play” and it’s packed with those Tidbit asides. I think my favourite was encouraging the reader to “Develop a gamification of curricula”. Most people might associate fun and games with Elementary School, but what’s the role of fun at Middle School?
- Anything that allows students to act as a real-world participant in the literary world, kids will have a blast with.
- Cary loves gamifying his classroom, especially for 7th grade English. During book club units, they’ll uncover “metaphorical journeys” in their literature. Cary will then turn it into a D&D-like game, creating a fictional world where the kids will act as the protagonists, thinking through the decisions that their character would have to make based on textual evidence. By the time they’re done, the kids have the books practically memorized!
Q. I don’t want us to run out of time and not mention it, so would one of you mind telling us about the appendix of this book and the section curiously titled “A Zygomatic Exercise Scripted Plan”?
- This connects to Terry’s biology background. The zygomatic bone is the cheekbone, and it connects to the mouth and the outer corners of the eye sockets. Terry talks about how sincerity of laughter affects your appearance differently, and how laughter is good for you at a hormonal and cellular level.
07. “Joke Proper – Ingenuity of Wit and Jests”
Q. In the next chapter you explore “Joke Proper – Ingenuity of Wit and Jests”. Telling a joke is always a risky business because jokes often come from things we find incongruous or even absurd. Often these things relate to gender – men refusing to ask for directions. Other times it relates to countries – I recently texted all my Canadian friends to wish them happy Fake Thanksgiving. How do you navigate this sort of thing with middle schoolers?
- Take note of what makes that age group laugh. Cary noted that his kids LOVE dad jokes and puns (though they have to act like they don’t). They also love stories from your own childhood, such as high school relationships.
- Some teachers put up a “joke-of-the-day” on their wall every day.
- Do you know how a joke is a dad joke? Because the pun is a-parent.
08. “On Flippancy – Descent into Darkness”
Q. Lewis has a lot to say about Flippancy and all the ills it can foster in a person. How can educators help guard their students against this?
- When kids get to around this age, flippancy becomes the chief currency.
- Lewis was a bit of a bully himself! He would take his teacher’s books and write flippant, sarcastic sentences in them.
I am in the smallest room in the house. I have your letter before me. Soon, it will be behind me.
Voltare, in a letter to a critic
- The scriptures have a lot to say about flippancy, with Proverbs being especially poignant.
Like a maniac shooting
Proverbs 26:18-19
flaming arrows of death
is one who deceives their neighbor
and says, “I was only joking!”
- Cary talked about the idea of the hidden curriculum, or the underlying expectations for behavior. How a teacher models themselves, and how they establish boundaries contributes to that hidden curriculum.
- David shared a story about a substitute teacher of his, the late Fr. Boniface, who would always give the students a list of things they could choose to do, so long as they were well behaved. A popular choice was for the priest to do a limerick. He modeled to the kids that it was possible to be clever and funny, without being sarcastic, crude, or cruel.
Wrap Up
Concluding Thoughts
Q. You end the book with “Tricks of the Trade” and a concluding chapter. Do you have any closing thoughts for our listeners?
- This book is meant to be a reminder to teachers of how fun the job can be. In the craziness of daily life, this often gets lost in the shuffle.
- Though laughter helps, teachers do not have to be standup comedians. Sometimes, it’s enough to ask students what they’ve laughed at today. This helps kids to remember their laughter, which is important because experiencing laughter is much better than simply trying to learn about it on your own.
More Information
- Go to Amazon or Barnes & Noble to pick up a copy of the new book!
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