Dr. Paul Fiddes talks to David about his magisterial work on Charles Williams, “Friends in Co-Inherence”.
Show Notes
Quote-of-the-Week
“[Co-inherence] is the conviction that human persons inhere or dwell in each other so that they exist in a mutual interdependence, and that at the foundation of this relational reality the ‘Persons’ of a triune God permeate one another in love.”
-Dr. Paul S. Fiddes, Charles Williams and C. S. Lewis: Friends in Co-inherence
Biography
Dr. Fiddes is an English theologian and novelist. He took degrees in both theology and English literature, he is an ordained Baptist minister, and is a man of many roles! He is…
- Professor of Systematic Theology at the University of Oxford
- Principal Emeritus and Senior Research Fellow of Regent’s Park College, Oxford.
There he is director of the Project for the Study of Love in Religion - He is also Doctor Honoris Causa of the University of Bucharest and
Honorary Fellow of St. Peter’s College, Oxford. - He was elected a Fellow of the British Academy in 2020.
He is author of over 20 academic books, one novel, and more than 180 articles, book chapters, and published lectures, and today he’s here to talk to us about his book, the magisterial Charles Williams and C.S. Lewis: Friends in Co-Inherence.
Toast
- Both were drinking Yorkshire Gold Tea
Discussion
01. “Introductions”
Q. So, to begin with, would you mind just telling our listeners a little bit more about yourself?
Dr. Fiddes loves connecting theology and literature. Systematic theology is one that connects many things, and he even finds it interesting to connect theology to maths and sciences.
02. “Finding Charles”
Q. How did you discover Charles Williams and how did you come to find yourself writing a book about him?
Dr. Fiddes began reading Williams as a child and then continued to read his novels, literary criticism, and poetry as a university student. He’s been reading Williams for 60 years! He chose to write a book about Lewis and Williams as close friends in life, and both existing in co-inherence.
Recommended and mentioned reading…
03. “Friends in Co-Inherence”
Q. I always like knowing to whom books are dedicated and you dedicate this one to
Francis and Penelope Warner. I was delighted when I discovered who they were. Would you please tell our listeners your connection to the couple and their link to Lewis?
- Francis Warner was Dr. Fiddes’ tutor of English Literature at Oxford for 3 years
- Warner’s doctoral advisor was CS Lewis
04. “Unpublished Sources”
Q. You’ve obviously been studying both Lewis and Williams for years, but what was your research for this book?
- Reading firsthand the works of both Lewis and Williams
- Used unpublished materials– letters, notes, manuscripts, etc
- Notebooks by Raymond Hunt, who attended all of Williams’ lectures (about 300)
- Notebooks give a great sense of Williams voice
05. “The Secret Road”
So let’s talk about your book, Charles Williams and C.S. Lewis: Friends in Co-Inherence…
It’s divided into five parts and in Part 1, you trace the “secret road” of the friendship between Williams and Lewis. You divide their friendship into three periods: 1936-1939, then when they were together in Oxford between 1939 and 1945, and then interestingly the period after Williams’ death until Lewis’ own passing away in 1963.
Q. Would you mind talking us through this timeline? What are some of the highlights?
- Williams in London, Lewis in Oxford
- Williams joined the Inklings
- Lewis attributes his last chapter of Perelandra to Williams
- Williams and Lewis both preached on “The weight of glory”
- Lewis continued his friendship with Williams, even after Williams died
- A Grief Observed
- The Four Loves
- Letters to Malcolm
Q. You speak about “Romantic Theology”. What do you mean by the term?
Theology which finds romance in religion, desire in religion. A longing and yearning for an inexpressible desire. Williams thought Christ was found in sexual love.
“Let your religion be less of a theory and more of a love affair.” – G. K. Chesterton.
06. “Ways of Exchange”
Q. I think it’s a good time to talk about co-inherence more directly. First of all, what is it?!
- Mutual indwelling, interpenetrating of one another
- both Williams and Lewis use this image of the divine dance, which holds the whole universe together
- Perichoresis
- The Great Trumps
- Perelandra
- God in Patristic Thought
As you, Father, are in me and I am in you, may they also be in us, so that the world may believe that you have sent me. John 17:21
In him we live and move and have our being, as even some of your poets have said, For we are indeed his offspring.’ Acts 17:28
07. “Origins”
Q. Is this idea Biblical? Is it Patristic? Does it have a theological pedigree in the Church?
-Williams draws his idea of coinherence from the early Church fathers work on perichoresis, found in their writings.
Q. What was the origin of this idea for Williams?
-The early Church fathers and Coleridge, as well. He only found the word “coinherence” 6 years before his passing, but it encompassed so much of his ideology.
Q. Did Lewis get this idea from Williams or did he develop his own ideas independently?
-Lewis got the idea of coinherence quite directly and clearly from Williams. He also further developed the idea himself. Williams was mainly concerned with coinherence with Christ and the Body of Christ, the Church.
The whole dance, or drama, or pattern of this three-Personal life is to be played out in each one of us: or (putting it the other way round) each one of us has got to enter that pattern, take his place in that dance. There is no other way to the happiness for which we were made.
CS Lewis, Mere Christianity
08. “Ink in co-inherence”
Q. Where do we see co-inherence exemplified in the works of Williams and Lewis?
- Perelandra
- Letters to Malcolm
- Descent into Hell
- The Greater Trumps
- All Hallows Eve
- He Came Down from Heaven
- 2 lectures of Williams on Blake and Karl Barth
- Wherever dance appeared in Lewis’ works
09. “Application”
Q. What are the practical implications of this doctrine?
-Williams thought there should be no domination or oppression in a coinherent society. Prayer, forgiveness, and suffering also are a big part of coinherence.
Wrap Up
Concluding Thoughts
- Write Oxford University Press and ask them to make a cheap paperback copy of Dr. Fiddes’ work!
More Information
-One person who subscribes to the Pints with Jack Newsletter will win a copy of Dr. Fiddes’ book, Friends in Co-Inherence”!
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