S8E25 – Perelandra – “Perelandra Retrospective”

Since we’ve now finished all our Perelandra episodes, we thought we’d wrap-up with a book retrospective!

S8E25: “Perelandra Retrospective” (Download)

Show Notes

Introduction

Quote of the Week

He was riding the foamless swell of an ocean, fresh and cool after the fierce temperatures of heaven, but warm by earthly standards, as warm as a shallow bay with sandy bottom in a subtropical climate. As he rushed smoothly up the great convex hillside of the next wave, he caught a mouthful of the water. It was hardly at all flavored with salt. It was drinkable like fresh water and only by an infinitesimal degree less insipid. Though he had not been aware of thirst till now, his drink gave him a quite astonishing pleasure. It was almost like meeting pleasure itself for the first time.

C. S. Lewis, Perelandra

Chit-Chat

• In case you were wondering who gave the opening quotation, that was actually C. S. Lewis himself, in a recording obtained by The Rabbit Room.
• As we have finished all of the “Perelandra” related episodes, all of the cohosts have returned to reflect on the novel.
• Pints with Jack now has an option for annual memberships, with a 10 percent discount for signing up.
• David shared a sweet and funny moment from his kid’s bedtime routine.
• Andrew completed an interview with the Optimistic Curmudgeon Podcast. The host, Josh Herring, is an academic track presenter at the C. S. Lewis Conference.
• Also in his world, Vol. 40 of “7”, the journal from the Wade Center, just released. In this issue, readers will find all of the 1952 letters of Joy Davidman, which have never before been released. Speaking of Joy Davidman, there is a project in the works…
• Matt has been busy with work, and is about to launch a new financial help business project called Wealth Architect. Think Dave Ramsey meets high-end financial planner, a pocket CFO integrated with AI.

Toast

• Andrew is on his second mug of coffee for the day.
• Likewise, David was drinking tea.
• Matt had a pint of Athletic Brewing.

• Today we are toasting… Kaeley McGrane!

Discussion

01. “What’s Next?”

Q. Before diving into the book, let’s do an update on the season. What’s next on the docket?

• We began the season with “Perelandra”, then did a month with scholars talking about various aspects of the book. Next month is “Jack’s Bookshelf”, where we examine the authors and books that shaped Lewis. We will look into Aristotle, Wordsworth, Grahame, and T. S. Eliot.
• After that, we’ll have “Narnia Month” with Lazo-Major (Andrew’s wife), going over the cartoon version of “The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe”. We will be perusing the adaptations of the books, in chronological publication order, including the black and white live action version.
• Finally, we will have a few more scholars on to talk about the literary influences behind Lewis’ works, by reading “Paths in the Snow” and “Narnia and the Fields of Arbol”, which was an especially requested book from our Slackers who wanted to learn about the Inklings and ecology.

02. “General Perelandra Thoughts”

• While Lewis encorporated beautiful, sweeping landscapes, he also revisited the diabolical, bringing “The Screwtape Letters” into the Edenic paradise.
• Matt thought that the book was essentially a reverse of “Screwtape”, a feat Lewis did not think he could pull off. It combined pleasure and rightly-ordered creation, along with the drawing up into the Devine Will. It’s not quite the reversal of “Screwtape”, because lewis didn’t pull off angelic thought. He could, however, grasp “un-fallen man” thought.

“To walk out of His will is to walk into nowhere.”

C. S. Lewis, Perelandra

• The hosts lamented the lack of public knowledge around the book, and wondered if it would be as praised and accepted if more people knew about it, with it being a more challenging read.
• David also noted that reading it slowly, unlike his first time reading it, helped his understanding. Like much of Lewis, it should be read slowly, carefully, and in community.

03. “Adaptation”

Q. We spoke about a movie adaptation about Out of the Silent Planet before… what do you think about an adaptation of Perelandra? What would you change? Who would you cast?

• David believes that “Out of the Silent Planet” would make a great film, while “Perelandra” would be a bit more difficult; it would, however, make a fantastic radio play. The audiobook for “That Hideous Strength” went a little too fast, in his opinion.
• They discussed the issue of nudity in the film, as most of the characters on Perelandra are naked. In the essay “Prudery and Philology” – found in his collection “Present Concerns” – Lewis wrote about the difference between the artist drawing the private areas of a character, and a writer making political choices when deciding how to portray the scene, with only a few words available to him. He can either use scientific language, filthy language, or infantile language. David believes they might have to omit this characteristic of the book altogether because it’s so charged.

04. “Movie Casting”

Q. How would you choose to adapt “Perelandra”? Who would be your cast?

• Andrew suggested that Matthew Goode, who played Lewis in Freud’s Last Session would make a good Ransom. David believes Liam Hemsworth could be a good Tor, and Liv Tyler could project the innocence of Tinidril well. But, if they wanted to sink the film, Tinidril should be played by Rachel Zegler (too soon Disney?).
• Matth brought up similarities between “Perelandra” and Avatar, and thought that a movie could be done if there was a Lewis scholar in the director’s ear to make sure they stayed true to the material. Matt also mentioned some of the actor choices from Pints with Jack listeners, including Dev Patel for Ransom, Lupita Nyong’o for the Green Lady, and Cillian Murphy as Weston.

05. “Favorite Lines and Themes”

Q. Are there any lines in particular that you liked from the book?

• Andrew’s favourite line was, of course, a foretelling of the last line of “Till We Have Faces”, where Orual prostrates herself before God.

Thus, while one part of Ransom remained, as it were, prostrated in a hush of fear and love that resembled a kind of death, something else inside of him, wholly unaffected by reverence, continued to pour queries and objections into his brain.

C. S. Lewis, Perelandra

“Long did I hate you, long did I fear you. I might [love you].”

C. S. Lewis, Orual, Till We Have Faces

• Scripture tells us that quite ordinary people are meant to do the fighting in this spiritual battle, in the book of Ephesians. Matt’s favourite quote stems from this verse, showing that significance is a grace bestowed upon us, not something to be achieved.

For we are not contending against flesh and blood, but against the principalities, against the powers, against the world rulers of this present darkness, against the spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places.

Ephesians 6:12

“Don’t imagine I’ve been selected to go to Perelandra because I’m anyone in particular. One never can see, or not till long afterwards, why any one was selected for any job. And when one does, it is usually some reason that leaves no room for vanity.”

C. S. Lewis, Ransom, Perelandra, Chapter Two

• We remain small, yet, we are participants in His divine will, who can affect the salvation of others. David’s chosen line was related to this.

“Be comforted,” said Malacandra. “It is no doing of yours. You are not great, though you could have prevented a thing so great that Deep Heaven sees it with amazement. Be comforted, small one, in your smallness. He lays no merit on you. Receive and be glad. Have no fear, lest your shoulders be bearing this world. Look! It is beneath your head and carries you.”

C. S. Lewis, Malacandra, Perelandra

• Another key line Andrew brought up was from chapter eleven, describing Ransom’s comfort in knowing that he will do what he was sent for, no matter how monumental it seems in the beginning.

…There had arisen before him, with perfect certitude, the knowledge “about this time tomorrow you will have done the impossible.”

C. S. Lewis, Perelandra, Chapter Eleven

• Active faith is a key theme in “Perelandra”. Argument only takes Ransom so far, for he knows that his opponent does not tire unlike himself, and eventually, he will wear the Lady down. Words have their limits, and at some point, you must abandon rhetoric and obey.

“In the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost, here goes—I mean Amen,” said Ransom, and hurled the stone as hard as he could into the Un-man’s face.

C. S. Lewis, Ransom, Perelandra

• This theme isn’t just relegated to “Perelandra” though, it’s everywhere throughout Lewis. In “The Silver Chair”, the children are able to escape from the underworld, not through argument (they are handicapped by magic, and will ultimately loose), but because a marshwiggle steps on a fire. In “The Great Divorce”, the only person who is saved in the story lets the spirit take action and kill the red lizard of lust on his shoulder, which allows him to transform and ride a stallion into Heaven.
• In response, Matt brought up another quote related to taking action, without assuming a preening posture of vanity:

A stone may determine the course of a river. He was that stone at this horrible moment which had become the center of the whole universe. The eldila of all worlds, the sinless organisms of everlasting light, were silent in Deep Heaven to see what Elwin Ransom of Cambridge would do.

C. S. Lewis, Perelandra

• Through this action, another theme emerges; God moves through our choices, and will make good of all that happens. However, the loss of making the wrong choice is tangible and real.

“Whatever you do, He will make good of it. But not the good He had prepared for you if you had obeyed him.”

C. S. Lewis, Perelandra

• Matt pointed to another action-based line from the novel, comparing it to being carried by a wave. How you ride the wave matters; are you surfing it, or are you being pummelled by the ocean?

“I thought,” she said, “that I was carried in the will of Him I love, but now I see that I walk with it. I thought that the good things He sent me drew me into them as the waves lift the islands; but now I see that it is I who plunge into them with my own legs and arms, as when we go swimming. I feel as if I were living in that roofless world of yours when men walk undefended beneath naked heaven. It is delight with terror in it! One’s own self to be walking from one good to another, walking beside Him as Himself may walk, not even holding hands. How has He made me so separate from Himself? How did it enter His mind to conceive such a thing? The world is so much larger than I thought. I thought we went along paths—but it seems there are no paths. The going itself is the path.”

C. S. Lewis, Perelandra

• Another prominent theme that emerges from the book is the nature of sin versus the fragile nature of innocence. In his novels, goodness is made attractive, and communion with God a tangible reality. The characters also appear to have a direct line to Maleldil, and as the reader, you want that connection yourself (the direct line was absolutely stolen from Tolkien and the way the elves communicate).
• Yet another theme was the pleasure the characters receive, and the satisfaction that comes with it. They do not want more, as we on earth are prone to overindulging, from the very beginning of our lives. David shared a cute story about his young daughter asking for more and more banana crisps.
• Andrew elaborated on the importance of making goodness captivating and appealing, giving the example of Charles Williams talking about the virtue of chastity to a group of young adults.

It was a beautiful sight to see a whole room full of modern young men and women sitting in that absolute silence which can not be faked, very puzzled, but spell-bound: perhaps with something of the same feeling which a lecture on unchastity might have evoked in their grandparents-the forbidden subject broached at last. He forced them to lap it up and I think many, by the end, liked the taste more than they expected to.

C. S. Lewis

06. “East of Eden”

Q. One of our Slackers posed this question: How has this book adjusted your thoughts about the account of the Fall in Genesis?

I wouldn’t mind hearing more comparisons that the book has to Adam and Eve. I liked what you guys spoke about last time, especially the part about Adam not intervening when Eve partook of the fruit, but I’ll take anything related to that, assuming that there is more to explore.

Jake Dean, PWJ Slack Channel

• In response to this, Kaeley McGrane, who we toasted today, brought up the point that the nature of labor changes after the fall. Whereas they were once stewards of creation, they are now working for their own provision in a hostile environment.
• Andrew suggested that perhaps the toil of work was what was added; perhaps work wasn’t so onerous before. He also acknowledges that the Temptation laid out in Scripture does not give a timeframe for how long it took place before Eve succumbed. It illicits some sympathy to know that
• Matt believes that he would be better able to answer why God might create something like the Fixed Land, or the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil.

Wrap Up

Concluding Thoughts

• Andrew appreciated how this reading allowed him to slow down and focus on all of the wonders of Lewis, as opposed to just the scenes that he likes to skip forward to.
• Matt read a summary of the season, generated by Gemini from all of the collective show notes:

Looking back, Perelandra is so much more than just an imaginative story. It’s a rich tapestry woven with threads of profound theological insight, breathtaking world building and deeply human, even when depicting the unfallen journeys. From these poignant lines that echo in the mind long after reading, to the epic sweep of themes like spiritual conflict, the luminous beauty of innocence, and the thrilling hints of cosmic order – all set against a familiar backdrop of Genesis, but reimagined with stunning originality – Lewis invites us into an experience. He challenges us to perceive reality with fresh eyes, to consider the true nature of good, evil, choice, and the staggering scope of God’s love. Perelandra leaves us perhaps with echoes of its golden waves and fragrant winds, a renewed sense of wonder at the beauty woven into the fabric of reality, and a deeper awareness of the profound adventure; the high stakes involved in our own walk of faith within God’s unfolding story.

Google Gemini Summary

• One final random note: If you heard the faint sound of Latin music in the background of some of our videos, we believe the protection had worn off of some of Andrew’s cables, and he was picking up radio waves. He recently got new cables, so you won’t be hearing salsa anymore.

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